romney points out 47% of the people won't take responsibility. he's talking about my mother and father, talking about places i grew up in my neighbors in scranton and clamont, talking about people that built this country. all they're looking for is an even shot. whenever you give them a shot, they've done it, done it. whenever you level the playing field they've been able to move and they want a little bit of piece of mind. the president and i are not going to rest until that playing field is level and they in fact have a clear shot and have peace of mind. until they can turn to their kid and say with a degree of confidence, honey, it's going to be okay, it's going to be okay. that's what this is all about. >> congressman ryan. >> i want to thank you as well, martha. danville, kentucky, center college and i want to thank you, joe, it's been an honor to engage in this critical debate.

we face a very big choice. what kind of country are we going to be? what kind of country are we going to give our kids? president obama, he had his chance. he made his choices. his economic agenda, more spending, more borrowing, higher tax, a government takeover of health care. it's not working. it's failed to create the jobs we need. 23 million americans are struggling for work today. 15% of americans are in poverty. this is not what a real recovery looks like. you deserve better. mitt romney and i want to earn your support. we're offering real reforms for a real recovery for every american. mitt romney , his experience, hs ideas, his solutions is uniquely qualified to get this job done, at a time when we have a jobs crisis in america, wouldn't it be nice to have a job creator in the white house? the choice is clear.

a stagnant economy that promotes more government dependency or a dynamic growing economy that promotes opportunity and jobs. mitt romney and i will not duck the tough issues. and we will not blame others for the next four years, we will take responsibility and we will not try to replace our founding principles, we will reapply our founding principles. the choice is clear, and the choice rests with you, and we ask you for your vote. thank you. >> and thank you both again. thank you very much. this concludes the vice-presidential debate. please tune in next tuesday for the second presidential debate at hoff stster university in no carolina. i'm martha rad datdatz of "abc news." i hope all of you go to the polls. have a good evening.

>> there you have it. that's the conclusion of the one and only vice-presidential debate and 2012 election. both of these gentleman, vice president joe biden and republican paul ryan had tall orders, things they had to accomplish here. you can argue both of them did get that mission accomplished. you did hear a lot of specifics on things like abortion, libya, iran and syria. taxes came up. i have to say, carl, i still don't feel i know a lot more about what their tax plans are and don't feel we got a lot of specifics out of that. >> so much attention tonight and tomorrow is focused on style, namely the laughter and grins that came from the vice president early on. the degree to which ryan appeared like he was trying to keep up to some degree and even martha getting widespread praise for most of the debate ending it with softball questions letting people think maybe it went on 20 minutes too long. >> again, the economy and jobs was brought up. biden had strong points where he

took some of the shots that the left criticized president obama for not taking in the last debate. i guess the question becomes was he too strong at times and we'll have to see what some pundits say. >> there's a lot of discussion about unforced errors on ryan's part. you don't bring up and automobile crash when you're with the vice president who has personal experience and you don't mention jack kennedy. that serve came back at him right away. >> there was someone who tweeted no republican vice-presidential candidate should ever mention jack kennedy. >> want to get reaction from our man on the ground. john harwood is in danville, kentucky as candidates and their families gather on stage. what did you think? >> i thought paul ryan did well. i thought he held his own. when the discussion did get to the tax issue, we had a little bit of capsule what happened in this debate. you had paul ryan embracing the across the board tax cut mitt romney is running on. he was pressed by martha, who

did an excellent job exactly specifically you do to pay for that tax cut, totally evaded that. what happened was as happened on other issues, joe biden got frustrated. you saw biden, he variously was laughing, smiling, got angry at times. i think there were times at which that demeanor did not serve him well. ryan did not get flustered. did have some republican political strategists who i talked to during the debate thought ryan looked a little bit smug at times. ryan, of course, is young, he has to worry about looking like the junior varsity against the older guy. bottom line, i don't think anybody dominated the debate but i thought ryan did well and i think basically what we've done is set the table for the debate next week with obama and romney. that is going to determine what the next pivot in this race is. >> john, just to bring up a couple of points. we did have an informal poll on

cnbc, about 3,000 people wrote in, based on what they have been writing, it went 60% in favor of ryan, 31% in favor of biden. 58-33, as those polls continue and we're watching intrade throughout where people are putting money down on this. barack obama at this point has 62.9%, mitt romney has 37.2%. i think it came down in the last half hour or so, earlier checked on barack obama he was up as high as 42%. 32-to 37.9. larry, you have incredible analysis to what you've seen. you've watched a lot of debates. what did you think? >> interesting debate. one thing that interested me. i came for an economics debate and tax and budget debate. i didn't get it. martha did a good job but really tilted this towards foreign policy. i happen to think that was the wrong tilt but she did what she

did. at the beginning when they got into foreign policy, ryan demonstrated a greater grand jury, went toe-to-toe, face to face, point to point with the vice president who spent the balance of his career in foreign policy. one point he was head of the foreign relations committee and later on went to afghanistan and syria. each time, ryan had a mastery of details as well as strategy. i'm not saying he necessarily won those points although i happen to think our foreign policy is a little weak. all i'm saying he held his own point to point. i think it frustrated biden, who was trying so hard to make up for what happened last week. he was like trying too hard. he had that new yosnarky. i know joe biden and like him

personally but not the smile. his weakest area, foreign policy, held his own toe-to-toe and demonstrated a lot of confidence. >> larry's point is well taken since the vice president at least tried to create a barrier between him and paul ryan by invoking, i can't go into classified material. didn't work. >> i think biden was very strong, very aggressive, very forceful making his point. the idea facts matter was an important idea. what paul ryan simply repeated talking points he clearly memorized, wasn't able to provide any depth or specificity beyond that. on the issue of taxes, they talked about it but paul ryan wasn't able to provide detail what he would do to cut the deficit and no detail about the issue of syria and what the romney-ryan people would do any different than the president and any detail on the issue of afghanistan, what they would do differently on that issue. on question after question, i

completely disagree with my friend, larry, i don't think he handled himself well at all on foreign policy issues, i think he was a total disaster. he did not look like he was ready to be commander in chief. i think the american people saw that. >> just one quick. >> i don't think -- >> one quick challenge. just one quick challenge to my good friend, keith boykin, i admire enormously. >> here it comes. whenever somebody says that -- >> actually, jared said earlier the first part of that debate was steaming and i agree. steaming was really on foreign policy and really on benghazi. i thought ryan drew a lot of blood. i think he put biden immediately on the defensive and the administration has a huge problem here a credibility problem, it could be a cover-up or falsehood problem. i think you saw that. biden was incapable of conclusively saying anything and ryan looked very strong. >> we should mention jerry bernstein is at the table. the former economic advisor.

former white house political director for former president george w. bush. how do you think he did? >> i thought he did great. i haven't heard any quite say that. he had a great debate the first hour in particular. on foreign policy i totally agree with the sentiment around the table, different from keith. i thought ryan comported himself well. i will say on foreign policy i thought ryan and romney sounded very bellicose, very out for war i believe didn't think resonated with the vice president and i don't believe will resonate with the public. while he did better on foreign policy, he did considerably worse, ryan, on the economy, the fiscal issues, on the stimulus i thought he had a bona fide embarrassing moment when the vice president called him out on his own request for stimulus payments and looked very flustered. these guys will not explain how they will pay for their tax cut and that is a liability. the vp nailed that. >> i'm sorry, i don't mean to be

rude, real quick. i was a little disappointed in paul ryan an defending the $5 trillion charge. we all knew the charge was coming. last week, mitt romney made it very clear that his policy, in addition to lowering tax rates, included a dollar cap on tax deductions. that dollar cap would be a lot lower for high income people. >> the basket, as romney likes to call. >> it was a great point and convincing point, the first time we heard specifics how he implemented this plan. i'm a little disappointed paul ryan didn't get into that dollar cap, i think he would have done himself some good. >> this struck me watching it, as is often the case with these candidates, when you're strong in one area like paul ryan is on the economy and social security, you overcompensate for something you think foreign policy maybe you'll get tripped up on. he was excellent on foreign policy. he was good.

i disagree with jared. he was good on social security and the economy. but he got a little too wonkish. wasn't as relatable as he was on the foreign policy part of this debate. >> john, we always -- we watch it from a distance and know what it looks like on television. what's it feel like in the room? >> reporter: i'm in the spin room, not in the room where the debate hall was being held. it's best to watch it on television and not be in the hallway. i got to say, i disagree with keith and jared on ryan on the foreign policy. i thought -- i thought he held his own. >> i said he held his own. >> seemed like somebody well briefed and well prepared. i think the dominant style question for me is did joe biden come across as looking too hot, too frustrated by a guy who he thought is a very good talker but was full of it and he didn't quite know how to parry that

without getting frustrated. >> this is an interesting point. >> was biden try doing hard, john? was biden trying too hard to make up for lost ground from last week and from the week since the last debate? that was the impression i got, that he was a very frustrated guy who was trying to hit home runs and unfortunately paul ryan wouldn't let him. >> reporter: i think there was some of that. i was wondering, when paul ryan turned to him, said i know you're under a lot of duress, whether that was a little too personal or pointed, a jab, although it was effective. somebody pointed out, i think it was jared, when biden turned and sa said -- cited the stimulus letters paul ryan had written, that was a very good moment for biden. martha stopped biden in his tracks for a moment when she asked him should people who support the right to abortion be worried. ryan didn't quite know what to say for a moment. again, i thought on the bottom line, paul ryan was pretty

unruffled by the evening's events. i don't think he scored any big decisive victory but i think he -- >> john -- john, just to be clear, just to be clear, i want to make this clear, i was emphatic about this, i actually said a second ago i thought paul ryan held his own on foreign policy. i disagreed with some of his positions but i definitely thought he held his own. what i thought was interesting -- >> reporter: maybe i was just disagreeing with keith. >> i thought he did less than hold his own on the budget and social security and the economy. >> we will continue this conversation in one moment. but we have been talking all night long about how the spin factor is out there, the question was did joe biden? paul ryan tell the truth and nothing but the truth. scott cohen was watching and his team of fact checkers is on the case and what jumped out at you. >> they did not tell the truth not all the way. this started with what happened on september 11th in benghazi,

libya, congressman ryan accusing the obama administration obvious skating whether it was an att k attack. president biden countered with this. >> the congressman cut embassy security in his budget $300 million below what we asked for. >> that is correct but it's largely irrelevant. ryan's budget is for fiscal 2013 that started october 1st. it had nothing to do with the events in benghazi. on heated exchanges between obama-care and medicare, we've covered a lot before, ryan repeating the claim obama takes $716 billion out of medicare but not acknowledging it is for providers not beneficiaries. >> here has the problem, they got caught with their hands in the cookie jar turning medicare into a biggy bank for their own obama-care. 1 out of 6 hospital and nursing

homes will go out of business as a result of this. >> 1 in 6 hospitals and nursing homes will go out of business. not quite. medicare's chief act tu auary d testify the cuts testify the cuts under obama-care would be an issue. 15% of providers could become unprofitable without productivity adjustments. did not say they would go out of business. the math about reducing taxes, let ing t letting the the bush tax expire, biden said if you let the tax cuts on millionaires expire they want it to expire on more than $250,000. that's it. back to you. >> the that was one of our key questions midway through the debate. thanks. to david walker. head of the comeback commission. he was talking about info on taxes and the deficit an didn't quite get it.

i'm sure you feel the same way. >> i sure do. we spent too much time on foreign policy and not enough on jobs and fiscal responsibility. i think ryan won because vice president biden's demeanor was inappropriate in the first part of the debate. >> what do you mean? >> he laughed, interrupted too much. didn't think he was vice-presidential. i thought he got better in the second half and ryan had a stronger close. the truth is neither has a credible tax plan and romney-ryan better start providing specifics how they will pay for the rate cuts. you can do it because there's about $11 trillion worth of tax expenditures over 10 years and you have to eliminate half of them to pay for it. they haven't provided enough specifics and hurting their credibility. >> put a cap. >> whatever, you have to provide more specificity. >> let me ask david a question. he'll appreciate this. >> the point i want to make is

romney last week put a cap on it. in fact, his cap -- original cap was $17,000, and even less for the upper income people. in the debate, romney repeated that. i was a little disappointed paul ryan didn't repeat that point because, you're right, there's about a trillion worth of loopholes on a yearly basis. >> both of you guys are forgetting something important. >> caps are very important. >> i agree. listen, david and larry, mitt romney has taken some of those looch hol loopholes off the table. >> i didn't hear him say that. >> the vice president said that tonight and ryan did not correct it. >> investment income, capital gains and dividends. >> i don't regard those as loopholes and neither does mitt. >> they're in your 1 trillion. >> ask david. are they not in this 1 trillion? >> they are in the 1 trillion. >> if we go back -- >> those aren't loopholes.

>> you may not think so but counting them. >> if we had a decent tax code we count tax saving and investment at all, tax consumption and income. >> let's talk about what the top five are. the top five are the fact individuals don't pay income taxes on employer provided health care. it's the mortgage interest deduction, the issue of capital gains and dividends, lower tax rates there, charitable contributions. that's only four of the five. pensions and savings is obviously one as well. you've got to provide more specificity in order to be credible. >> that seems to be the problem, though, i think what's going on is the people in the romney campaign decided they don't want to give specifics, they don't want to talk about getting rid of tax deduction for charitable contributions or interest deductions or state and local taxes because they're afraid once they get into the specifics the american people won't buy

into it. >> leadership is not about kicking the can down the road as paul ryan said once. it's about taking responsibility. you can't say after the election we will work in a bipartisan way everybody will agree with. >> one good thing is we're not talking big bird tonight. i want to bring in the founder of costco, one of the business leaders backing the president. great to have you on the program. i know you're not a political strategist. if we're all honest, this is about trying to play to a household in ohio. i wonder if you think any needle moved on that front tonight. >> i don't know. both of these gentlemen are credible debaters and have vastly different views how things should be handled. i think they have expressed those views. in my particular case, i think the plan that president obama has is vastly superior to any of

the plans presented by the romney-ryan ticket. >> to your question, though, ca carl, i think both parties accomplished what they wanted to but because of the way the vice president conducted himself throughout most of this debate, he hurt himself with independen independents. watching the dow groups online. the siing- >> laughing. >> they're calling is the al gore sii i sighing online. [ all talking at the same time ]. >> take a listen to what we heard. >> you have a few things to say here? >> a lot of duress to make up for lost ground. but i think people would be better served than try to scare people for voting for you. all i have to point to are the

results. we're going in the wrong direction. he evacuated for constituents applying for grants. that's what we do. we do that for all c constitutents. >> i love that. >> the idea came from -- >> do you have the specifics? >> jared, you said we are not theater critics, you're right, we're more concerned what's happening here but this is the issue. >> there's a lot of substance, we're not theater critics reviewing a show at the movies. >> but impressions matter. >> they do. at the end of the day there is a small slice of the electorate undecided tuning into these debates and this is what they're taking away from their vice president. >> i have no problem being a theater critic here. >> i will say this, i appreciate the theater critic point. unfortunately sarah is going to be write some people will take away and the media will write about it. ryan had a really serious demeanor for an hour and a half

and didn't get sucked into it. it's the first time he played in that spot. ryan talked about leadership, and i think that's an obama weakness especially after last week's debate and hasn't been able to put the deals together and he talked about bipartisanship. and one reason why romney is doing so well in the polls. leadership and bi papartisanshii think on points, ryan wins this handily. >> you have put together costco hundreds of times in this country and other cris. that takes come mice, you have to work with developers, architects, politicians, do you believe the president has displayed that kind of discipline and willingness to cooperate? >> i think the president has tried consistently to collaborate with the other side.

i think he's been thwarted at every single turn. it's pretty difficult to collaborate when the agenda is to make sure he fails. >> david, we call you the taxes ranger, one question i still don't understand, i heard biden tonight bring up the idea in a democratic regime that gets a second term they'd be raising taxes on any making over a million dollars. i thought at this point it was $250,000. did that talking point change tonight or am i missing something? >> first, there's no way you can come close to solving our deficit problem if you focus on people making over a million dollars and frankly you can't focus if you just focus on people making $250,000 or more. neither one of the candidates have a credible tax plan based upon what we've heard right now. frankly, we didn't hear enough about health care. we've got to hear more about tax, we have to hear more about health care and you can reduce defense spending without compromising national security. that's a fact and we need to do

it. >> one issue here. something we talked about on our program tonight. i think that president obama has still not made the case for re-election. he has not laid out a specific case and rationale for his re-election. i wondered out loud earlier tonight whether joe biden would make that case. he did not. in fact, joe biden spent precious little time talking about president obama. it was much more about joe biden and his beliefs. i just found that interesting. ryan on the other hand spent a lot more time defending mitt romney and put through his five point plan. i don't think the obama reelect rationale has yet been made and i think that's a weakness. >> you mentioned the debate to come. how does tonight change the strategy for the president for the governor next week? >> reporter: a couple points on that, carl. first of all, i didn't think either candidate did a very good job of focusing exclusively on the top of the other ticket.

for the obama campaign, when you're the incumbent all the problems in the world are your problems. that's the burden of an incumbent in bad times. when you're a challenger, the freedom you have is, yeah, i want all the things he wants, i share all the values he shares but i'd do it better, i'd do it cheaper. the democrats have not come to an effective way of dealing with that challenger argument. >> thanks to all of you for all of your participation. great having you. becky, you will be back in this chair in seven hours. while they while they battle it out, i'm trying to make your money. which of the hottest stocks will continue to climb higher by year end. don't move because "mad money" is coming up next! hey, it's sandra -- from accounting. peter. i can see that you're busy... but you were gonna help us crunch the numbers for accounts receivable today. i mean i know that this is important. well, both are important. let's be clear.

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